Mercedes AMG Classic

[quote="bondavi"]Take a look at this wide body. This is what I consider the "authentic" look a Gen 2 560 wide body should have. If it is a fake, then it was done very well with parts close to AMG spec, which is laughable these days to obtain apart from a donor car.

It just looks right. It flows right. It gets the right fluids flowing.

This white one? Pssshhhhh.

[img]https://d39a3h63xew422.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/28062854/560sec-8-1000x667.jpg[/img]


That black one is as real as they come. I know the car the owner & the seller. As good as they come!

[/quote]

I assume this white wide body is from Japan ?

price is about the same as Mario's Canadian white 5.6 2V widebody.

For someone with $140k to spend, it is a bit of a crapshoot - a well documented and pristine 2v, or a 4v a bit rough around the edges such as this one.

still floating out there:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz/amg/1996566.html#&gid=1&pid=1

Coincidence - not Bruce Mendel. I thought the same thing.

by the way..., did anyone notice that the seller is mendelsgarage ...in pennsylvania. I'm guessing this is bruce mendel? i won't comment further other than to say that i agree that the car seems to have a host of issues

[quote="48hp"]There was this SOHC example on Craigslist in San Diego not long ago.[/quote]

A JP fake shipped out here based on an euro 560SEC. What gave that car away was the rear bumper amongst other things.

They did bring in a 32V 6.0 wide body that looked nice, legit, and sold excluding CA buyers. That car's sale got them hooked on the C126 wide body bringing in the fake 199 SEC, and the Smoke 6.0 wide body.

However the left front end to me, in the pic at least sustained a bump at some point. See the different balance between both front fenders. Still a nice car to own.

Back to Monterey Car Week....looking forward to pics/details of the whole weekend!

[img]http://symbolicinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/1990MB6-0AMG-1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://symbolicinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/1990MB6-0AMG-9.jpg[/img]

Take a look at this wide body. This is what I consider the "authentic" look a Gen 2 560 wide body should have. If it is a fake, then it was done very well with parts close to AMG spec, which is laughable these days to obtain apart from a donor car.

It just looks right. It flows right. It gets the right fluids flowing.

This white one? Pssshhhhh.

[img]https://d39a3h63xew422.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/28062854/560sec-8-1000x667.jpg[/img]

There was this SOHC example on Craigslist in San Diego not long ago.

I just like all the attention our cars are getting now. This week will just add to the surge in attention. It is our job to educate (respectfully) those who want to learn about these special cars, correct inaccuracies and continue to push Mercedes-AMG to celebrate the pre-merger cars.

Flying out tomorrow (Tuesday) AM. Three years of planning and it is finally here.

[quote="bondavi"]
Henric's 500SEC is the exception. Its never been labeled an AMG, yet the workmanship in that car is much better than anything out of the AMG factory. It will always be highly regarded.[/quote]

Appreciate the appreciation, thanks bondavi.

There was this poor 500SEL in Europe not long ago with an early 5.0/5.4 DOHC that the seller yanked out and tried to resell as a 6.0 DOHC for 6.0 money.

We were used to consistently seeing legit, genuine premerger AMG's out there for a while, but in recent years, has become an spectator's sport identifying the fakes, con jobs, and repros, from the real stuff.

And the real stuff is really small in population, it seems to the proliferating population of fake AMG cars.

Henric's 500SEC is the exception. Its never been labeled an AMG, yet the workmanship in that car is much better than anything out of the AMG factory. It will always be highly regarded.

Could *possibly* be a 560 motor cobbled with early 4V heads. The Japanese have been known to do chop suey jobs out there.

Seller confirmed engine # installed in car is 11796812033352 so swapped out at some point. They also confirmed there is no VC stamp confirming engine build # or size.

Recent incorrect seat upholstering job aside, the gaps tell me that it is very possible we are looking at a fake.

And that trunk spoiler... :(

and what is up with the trunk spoiler?

Japan car with no history or provenance. Which is ok if the car looks fully right and properly presented for asking top $. Smart move listing this for 7 day auction just before Monterey car week starts. Hope he gets all the money on this car.

I hate to be the one to say this but IMHO the atrocities in AMG widebody attempts have made the normal SEC AMG coupe looking so much more attractive.

The missteps in body fit, gaps, panels, and the over all look just don't fit. Remember what outsiders perceive as an AMG widebody on paper may not translate into something that LOOKS like an AMG widebody to our well trained eyes here.

Dr Grillz didn't like that Smoke 6.0 widebody - I don't blame him. That car doesn't look right overall to the trained eye.

Thanks. For what ever reason the link I posted didn't allow me to see the entire album.

Anyway, yes there are a number of hairs to split on this one.

This engine doesn't have the revised blow-back retrofit nor increase volume modified VC, let alone the late cast VC. This, as is, would suggest a very early DOHC engine, particularly without the VC stamping. Also, the VC appear to be painted.

The instrument cluster is reflective of high humidity environment.

No cruise control.

Aftermarket ground straps over secondary firewall.

Yes, driver's side snorkel...

BBS Steering wheel?

Two tone upper door panel wood.

incorrect rear AMG badge placement...

and....

48hp, if you scroll down and click "See all images" you see the full photo set

https://vmp.ebay.com/ebay/viewAllPhotos.aspx?smid=5180980

a JP example that sold earlier this year: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23945/lot/92/

Oh and the front spoiler and rear apron are late model WB, more often seen on the JP examples.

The eBay listing only has exterior body photos. Yes, the panel gaps are a bit inconsistent. And yes, fix the broken vacuum advance and give the engine bay a proper detailing.

Eyeballing the car, there are some issues that come up that bug the crap out of me.

It is definitely a Gen2 500SEC based on the WDB126044 (not 045) VIN. Started out as a 199 color car.

Engine has a Gen1 vacuum diaphragm, early (but revised) oil blowback system, no stampings on the RHD valve cover, the vacuum advance has a broken rubber connection (see pictured). How is displacement at 6.0 assumed? Based on paperwork? Most Gen1 DOHC motors were 5.0/5.4, a few 6.0's made their way in late Gen1/early Gen2 cars. Also just because it is aGen2 DOHC doesn't mean it is a 6.0, it can also be a 5.6. And whats up with the LHD intake air tube?

The wide body conversion looks good, but there's something about the lines of it that doesn't scream factory AMG. Maybe a later conversion? The car also has the "tucked"narrow rear bumper that was commonplace on non-AMG conversions. Would a real AMG wide body be sent off without an actual widened rear bumper?

Door cards are from a later 89-91 car. Does he have the AMG documentation to accommodate the car? I'd think if he bought it off an owner who owned it the last 30 years, that paperwork would be a definite given.

Also the rear trunk lip spoiler - I don't think I've seen a design like that ever. Nor does it look AMG.

Nice car. But I have some red flags personally.


[img]http://photo.cargigi.com/adam/Dealers/64315/117396098/Photo/00000000000000000-29.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photo.cargigi.com/adam/Dealers/64315/117396098/Photo/00000000000000000-44.jpg[/img]

Ident. number WDB1260441A196262
VIN WDB1260441A196262
Sales name 500 SEC
Order number 0 4 204 03382 (Destination: Branch Bielefeld)
Delivery date 1985-09
PAINT1 199
Interior color 271
Engine 117965 12 000635
Gearbox 722311 02 695546
General data for model code 126044

SA codes
Parameter Value
199 APPLICATION CODE FOR COMPONENT PROCESSING
260 TYPE DESTINATION ON TRUNK LID - ELIMINATION
271A LEATHER ANTHRACITE
406 No code designation available
412 ELECTRIC SLIDING ROOF
506 No code designation available
532 COMAND APS WITHOUT NAVIGATION NTG5/NTG5.5
543 SUN VISOR WITH ADDITIONAL FUNCTION
581 AUTOMATIC AIR CONDITIONER
611 EXIT LIGHTS FOR DRIVER DOORS
673 HIGH-CAPACITY BATTERY
812 REAR-MOUNTED LOUDSPEAKER
873 SEAT HEATER FOR LEFT AND RIGHT FRONT SEATS

Looking at VIN plate says this car originally built as 500SEC. I've asked seller to confirm actual engine number installed in car to see if 560 or 500. Also asked to confirm AMG build number stamp on Header will be in the format of XXX X.X as this will confirm the AMG capacity build of the engine 5.6 or 6.0 as advertised which was missing from listing photos

spotted this BIN $145,000:

[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Mercedes-Benz-SEC-AMG-hammer-6-0-DOHC-Widebody/112520670832?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649[/url]

[img]http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vo8AAOSwi2lZjcvd/s-l1600.jpg[/img]